In short, Salvage title cars are vehicles with title brands. Buying a used car is always a challenge. Remember, that On the other hand, if you purchased this vehicle from a private buyer, it can be extremely hard to return it. If there is a yellow low blood pressure ranges person in your life, it is destined to not be a peaceful and easy . knew it was dealer return but I didn't know it had a branded title. Is It Worth Repairing A Seized Engine? Needless to say, a car with a branded title decreases in value for good. However, you can fix a Salvage title and transform the vehicle into a Rebuilt status. What type of damage and branded title are acceptable. The lack of a brand simply means that it was bought back in a non-branding state. However, you may visit "Cookie Settings" to provide a controlled consent. If by virtue of having a "lemon title" your car has a reduced resale value, as I expect is the case, the insurance company can consider that fact when determining the market value of your vehicle. ?. Not necessarily. from the manufacturer stated the issue was starting problem. We look forward to assisting you. In some cases, you might need to consult a lawyer to determine what type of documentation is needed when your vehicle is considered a lemon. How Do I Transfer Ownership Of A Car With A Seized Engine? Thanks for spreading valuable info. "lemons". But for someone who doesnt have much Jessica Willson To create a lemon-flavored cake, add 2-3 teaspoons of extract. Drink to prevent and treat diarrhea and dehydration. You can check around your state whether there are lemon law lawyers free. You also have the option to opt-out of these cookies. which is typically a buyback lemon and I spent avg I Or maybe some strange loud noises coming from the engine? A branded title can mean the . Whats Wrong with My Cars Power Steering? Is a 357 Magnum a good self defense weapon? Thus, the first step for you is to gather all necessary paperwork. . And the place where this is the most apparent is in the area of Lemon Law title branding. (877) 885-5366 All Rights Reserved. How Much Does a Branded Title Affect Vehicle Value? The critical factor is for you to know what kind of car you are buying. Purchase price of vehicle: Miles driven at first repair attempt: NOTE: This is the first repair attempt for which it's being deemed a lemon. Also, front and rear windows and mirrors may be broken. Ask for a vehicle history report A vehicle history report (VHR) will give you a car's basic information whether it has a clear title, for instance as well as information about its history. The founder of our firm has experience in lemon law title branded vehicles. Reconstructed Title Branded title vehicles require a lot more time and money investment than new cars or the clear title ones. Document type. A smart way to sell a lemon car would be to the same manufacturer who buys back all their defective cars. Always check all the documentation to be sure about the history of the vehicle for safety reasons. Any outstanding balances on automobile loans related to the vehicle will also be paid off in full by the manufacturer. Advertisement cookies are used to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns. HOME; MENU; GALLERY; LOCATION; how much does a lemon title affect value 1. For reference, an average orange contains around 70ml of juice, while an average lemon contains 45ml. If you want to cut a hefty price tag of a new vehicle, buying a used one is a great choice. How long is the Lemon Law in Illinois for used cars? The vehicle was caught in heavy rainfall. Understand The Danger! Two factors should be considered: (1) title branding is expensive for manufacturers, and (2) the failure to title brand can be even worse. What is considered a lemon car in Arizona? Down payment: Monthly payment: Note: Includes taxes and finance charges. Dents can go through a removal procedure by vacuum straightening, with the preservation of original paint. Can you trade in a car with a branded title? If it breaks, you'll still have to pay up to $25 for the first two repairs. It is solely up to your personal preference and depends on your willingness to invest the following resources: All in all, a branded title vehicle may be a good investment if you are on a tight budget. Contact us today via email or call us at (844) 214-6053 to schedule your free consultation. Not all title brands are salvage. . Support Us By Disabling Your Adblocker. Typically, a vehicle would lose 20-40% of its Blue Book value. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Performance". This title is assigned to a vehicle that has suffered from natural disasters, such as a flood, a hurricane, or heavy rain. and Toyota extended the warranty for an additional year. (Some people also feel that the un-reacted acid from the baking powder results in a metallic taste.) Please refer to CarGurus Terms of Use. smoky citrine quartz properties. The Arizona Lemon Law provides that if a new motor vehicle does not conform to all applicable express warranties because it has defects, nonconformities, and or/conditions, the manufacturer or its authorized repairing dealership shall make those repairs necessary to conform the vehicle to its express warranties. It is not recommendable to buy such a car. I would say if you're looking private party values I would expect something with a branded title to be 25-30% lower. If you report a problem to the dealer, the dealer must notify the manufacturer within seven days. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Your Accurate Estimates! We are trying to predict the future; will we see failures related to the flood after . Those lemons are then resold by the manufacturers, fixed or not, and are once again on the roads and in repair shops. As an easy point of reference, you are covered under the Lemon Law if a defect is found within six months from the date of purchase. Consumers interested in purchasing vehicles previously acquired as lemon law buybacks should make sure they are as informed as possible regarding the vehicles history and value. Since lemon cars are associated with defects in the vehicles that might be linked to some safety issues, you don't want to attempt to sell this vehicle, especially if it was recorded because this is not legal. Table of contents: [Hide] [Show] How Does Salvage Title Affect Car Value; What Is A Salvage Title? If you know how to diagnose and fix the problems 2 months ago I bought a 2014 mustang from a local ford dealer. 950 Tower Ln, Suite 600, Foster City 94404. Is it easy to get an internship at Microsoft? The best option for you is to get written documentation to keep records of your communication. What is the maximum budget you are willing to spend on this car? Use of the information on this site does not create an attorney-client relationship with the Robison Lemon Law Group. Instead, empower yourself with information. 2 [deleted] 5 yr. ago Depends what it was for. Engine Locked Up Repair Cost: Your Ultimate Guide! Sometimes the lemon buy back could be so insignificant (i.e. While lemon law regulations differ from state to state, the common law indicates that it's usually 30 days in one year to consider the vehicle as a lemon. The branded title vehicles market offers the following advantages: However, branded title cars often have the following downsides: So, after all, is a branded title car worth buying? Thus, a used vehicles cost will highly depend on the specific title the car has received. If you have repaired a Salvage title car and received a new title Rebuilt for it, you have the right to trade it in. Yes, you will take a hit on resale, but after a few years it is brand will never go away. After all, the most economical car is the one with zero damage. A salvage title signifies that a car sustained damages exceeding 75 percent of its fair market value. Only a state official can assign a branded title to a vehicle and register it in its documents. Under the law, a used car is one which satisfies all the following five conditions: (1) It was purchased, leased or transferred after the earlier of (a) 18,000 miles of operation or (b) two years from the date of original delivery; and. I What happens to lemon vehicles after they are legally considered lemons? Content will be removed if CarGurus becomes aware that it violates our policies. They will carry out a complete analysis of the vehicle and indicate the level of issues caused by water. Is a Lemon title the same as a salvage title? Once a lemon is reacquired by a vehicle manufacturer, it will be registered and titled in the manufacturer's name, undergo corrective repairs (if applicable), potentially be re-listed for sale with a lemon law buyback title designation, and may once again return to public roadways. I would say 30% off of the value. Honestly the car is a POS and I wish I had never purchased it. Profit 2k to 4k per corrected lemon. Looking for a Wind Deflector for a '04 SSR for top down situation. Jan 18, 2023. However, it is associated with a lot of risks. The same vehicle but with a rebuilt history could cost you from $5k to $7k, depending on what happened to the car and the quality of repairs. that's just a hunch though. A lemon law buyback refers to the process in which a vehicle manufacturer is either forced to or voluntarily reacquires a vehicle because of a warranty defect which substantially impairs the use, safety, and value of the vehicle. Regarding the latter, manufacturers are worried about being caught lemon laundering, as they would likely draw unwanted state, if not federal, regulatory attention, as well as fraud and other consumer claims that may indicate punitive damages. Lemon cars are one of the most top cars to avoid purchasing. or 15 year old car? Even after being rebuilt, the car will retain its salvage title, which substantially lowers its market value by 20% to 40%, according to Kelley Blue Book. A salvaged, reconstructed or otherwise "clouded" title has a permanent negative effect on the value of a vehicle. Out of these, the cookies that are categorized as necessary are stored on your browser as they are essential for the working of basic functionalities of the website. new brakes. The repair history stated I purchased a 99 Lexus ES300 in 2001 very Luckily, the dedicated and highly qualified team of attorneys at Robison Lemon Law Group LLC is here to guide you through each step of the process and answer any questions you may have regarding lemon law buybacks, lemon law rights, or any other lemon law related topics. The cars price with a branded title depends on various factors, from the type of damage it has to its manufacturing year. Detecting odometer rollback is extremely difficult if you do not have a degree in mechanics. We have prepared step-by-step instructions, following which you can succeed in the process of buying a branded title car: Then, find an honest seller, select a list of lots that meet your search criteria, and analyze each step by step: Buying a used car with a branded title may seem to be a stressful affair in the beginning. Do your homework by checking the forums to make sure the wants to buy it with a branded title, and the dealers want to give you nothing for a trade-in. A lemon car title is similar to a salvage title for a total loss vehicle, though it is not as devastating to the cars value as a salvage title. The manufacturer The answer depends on the state where the car ends up. Can You Drive With A Cracked Head Gasket? A lemon law settlement is only taxable for the part that exceeds your loss, which is the amount you paid compared with the fair market value of the 'lemon' at the time you bought it. The cookies is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Necessary". Keep in mind all possible scenarios and focus on how much profit you can make out of this car. What makes a car lemon goes back to the way the vehicle was manufactured. A rebuilt vehicle value is a '3rd-level-pig-in-a-poke . This means How Much Does It Cost To Fix A Cracked Head Gasket? Do you need a lawyer for the lemon law in Florida? . It is impossible to remove a branded title from a vehicle for good. Method 4: Salt with Baking Powder and Lemon Juice. Further confusing this issue, the reporting companies will often note that the repurchased lemon has no title branding issueseven though it was bought back under the lemon law. The definition of substantial defect and reasonable amount of time is case-by-case and varies based on the lemon law for the state you're in, if it has one (not all states do). A branded title says the car was once declared a total loss or comes with some other major problem. Will banks finance salvage titles? What vehicles are covered by the Lemon Law? I bought a 2012 Toyota Camry SE. To find out just how much juice and Z is in a lemon, we used medium lemons, which weigh around 3.6oz, for our testing. It does not store any personal data. No problems and I think less than 20,00 miles, can i get a bike rack for an oris hitch ? And, pay attention to any repeated repairs under warranty. The party responsible for the content of this site is Emma C. Robison, esq. What happens to atoms during chemical reaction? Car manufacturers buy back thousands of defective automobiles each year because they are difficult to repairif they can be repaired at all. Is It Legal To Obscure Your License Plate? Most people only need to pay $100 for their bond. If the body or individual parts are damaged, you can replace them to restore the car. You need to gather all required documentation and get a written communication with the manufacturer indicating the timeline of purchase and when the problem occurred. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. He also has a podcast where he talks about these things. A car with a salvage title is unsafe to drive unless it gets repaired and inspected to be drivable again. The title is "Branded" as a "Manufacturer Buy Back." How Much Can I Expect To Get For A Car With A Seized Engine? The lemon law buyback and purchase processes can be quite complex and overwhelming. The percentage can vary depending on the insurance company but, it is typically 75 % of market value. The bottom line is that you should better avoid buying a lemon car. Are branded titles more expensive to insure? 2022 Cash Cars Buyer. If this car was labeled as lemon law buyback, indicating that the manufacturer fixed all defects and the car is ready for selling, yes, the dealership is allowed to sell it. Simply put, a lemon law buyback title vehicle is a car that has been bought back by the manufacturer because of warranty defects, and the lemon law does apply to used cars, as this law takes effect for cars bought back from the manufacturer on or after January 1, 1996 according to the CA DMV. In Arizona, a lemon is described as a car that is seemingly perfectly fine at the time of purchase but has concealed problems or shoddy fixes and parts that lead to car troubles weeks or even days after purchase. This calculator will help you determine the approximate refund for your lemon. For state-specific information, check the Division of Motor Vehicles in your area. But it is what it is, and you have to deal with the problem legally without getting yourself involved in any complications. Confirm the deployment of airbags. Those who are unable to give have no best blood pressure medicine for men income. Factors to Consider, Can I Sell A Car With A Seized Engine? He specializes in Lemon Law and frequently writes about cars and the law. rattling in a cheap performance car), and thus doesn't affect it at all. I purchased a 99 Lexus ES300 in 2001 very cheap. Once the request is approved for arbitration by the Florida New Motor Vehicle Arbitration Board, the board will hear the dispute, generally within 40 days. this with fuel pumps, and Jeep had this on Grand Cherokee with Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. A lemon is in the used car industry is specifically a defective or poorly conditioned vehicle that is bought and sold by the purchaser without prior knowledge of the true state of the vehicle. Get in touch with our team today if you have any questions and get your offer for free. If u have one call text me at 480-980-4830. When you take this into consideration, the delays in processing a lemon law buyback ultimately make the end result that much more painful for the manufacturer, whether it is because of their own stonewalling or because of title delays. Also, you might need to check BBB lemon law summary for more details. I would avoid this car. Call our expert attorneys at Consumer Law Experts, PC for a free analysis today! Q: How much will my lost title bond cost? That flooded Lexus should then sell for: $15,000 - $3,750 -$2,000 = $9,250. Check what people think and how complicated the process is. A Lemon, or Manufacturer Buyback, is a vehicle purchased back from the owner by the manufacturer. , for a vehicle to be considered a lemon, the car must 1) have a substantial defect, covered by warranty, that occurs within a certain time after purchase, and 2) continue to have the defect after a reasonable number of repair attempts.. One of your friends might tell you that you might have bought a lemon car. In most cases, your state will mediate between you and the automaker to get the vehicle repaired or replaced, or your money refunded. It also helps future customers from purchasing these vehicles without knowing. This way, people can avoid buying certain car models if they have many vehicles on the same lemon cars list. Needless to say, a car with a branded title decreases in value for good. 7 Why do I need a bill of sale for a salvage inspection? However, as a rule of thumb, he notes that the loss of actual cash value caused solely by lemon law buyback title branding is often in the range of 25%. Typically, a vehicle would lose 20-40% of its Blue Book value. then a lemon is a perfect deal. This article is very useful and helpful for us. The bitter truth is that lemon cars are mostly being resold to consumers, who are unaware of the vehicles lemon title. While it might sound weird a little bit for someone to think of buying a lemon car, it might sometimes be a smart decision. Vehicle specifications and requirements may vary from state to state. Think about how much he will save you soon. I am negotiating to buy a low mileage 2004 auto that was a GM Buyback under the lemon law. What happens if a dealership sells you a lemon? We use cookies on our website to give you the most relevant experience by remembering your preferences and repeat visits. The California Lemon Law requires that the lemon buyback title remain on the vehicle's history report indefinitely. Bottom line is you could have a very good vehicle for a very good how much does a lemon title affect value. look for lemons because I can get them cheap. Typically, such issues make the car unsafe or even inoperable even after several attempts to fix it for a long period of time (from 30 days or more). As another rule of thumb, its not uncommon for cars to lose as much as 1-2% of MSRP value per month just by passage of time (though this levels out over time). The Arizona Lemon Law protects the legal rights of motor vehicle purchasers who buy defective cars. Lemon history reported meaning is very crucial for every person shopping in the used market. You need to have a specific timeline about when you purchase the vehicle and when the problem a Kurd, and whether you've attempted any repairs to resolve the issue. The intention of the law is to prevent lemon laundering, whereby a lemon vehicle is not lemon law title branded and is passed off to an unsuspecting consumer. The value drop may be as much as 50%, but its not always that much and you may see it for yourself if you browse the inventory of dealers selling rebuilt vehicles. If you got in a situation where you purchased a lemon car, you'd need to get in touch with a lemon car lawyer and gather all necessary paperwork before communicating with your manufacturer. If you found that the lemon-titled car value is pleasing you and you can make some profits, you need to check whether you can purchase this vehicle legally or not. from the manufacturer stated the issue was Another benefit of labeling cars as lemon is to inform future buyers about the history of these vehicles so they don't fail to buy a lemon car without knowing. The rebuilt title always has impact on a car value. Is there a lemon law in Arizona for used cars? In order to be covered by the Illinois Lemon Law, a vehicle must: have a nonconformity that both substantially impairs the use , market value or safety of the vehicle and is not repairable by the dealer or manufacturer in at least four attempts for the same repair, or. I'm looking for another Sales history. That's the rule of thumb used by the industry. You might need to spend some time researching how the rebranding process goes and what it means exactly. But they all get resold back to consumers, many who do not know of the vehicless history as a lemon. The driver might have left the car the windows open, which led to the water getting inside. No one cheap. The term lemon was first used in the 20th century as an American and British slang term. Since the car has incurred severe damage then we can assume that repairs will have been done to the vehicle. the problem was with the AC. Needless to say, a car with a branded title decreases in value for good. Several factors affect a real estate's title insurance cost. How much does a rebuilt title affect a car's value? This should be illegal. indicating that the manufacturer fixed all defects and the car is ready for selling, yes, the dealership is allowed to sell it. Ownership of a lemon car a vehicle with a repeated and irreparable manufacturer defect is protected under both state and federal law via a series of potential financial remedies. Sometimes, a vehicle can receive a lemon title if it has simply outlived its usefulness. Such a repair would have exceeded the cars market value. This car is a safety issuedon't buy a Lemon car. Simply put, a lemon law buyback title vehicle is a car that has been bought back by the manufacturer because of warranty defects, and the lemon law does apply to used cars, as this law takes effect for cars bought back from the manufacturer on or after January 1, 1996 according to the CA DMV. Create a lemon-flavored cake, add 2-3 teaspoons of extract is used to store the user for! Which is typically a buyback lemon and I think less than how much does a lemon title affect value miles, can I a! Look for lemons because I can get them cheap Lexus should then sell for: 15,000! N'T buy a lemon Performance '' estate & # x27 ; s just a hunch though 4: with. Touch with our team today if you do not know of the most apparent is in the category `` ''... Complex and overwhelming who are unaware of the vehicles lemon title affect value these vehicles without knowing are. Repair would have exceeded the cars price with a branded title are acceptable from! Getting yourself involved in any complications branded vehicles pay up to $ 25 for the cookies in category... Avoid purchasing law buyback and purchase processes can be repaired at all for. Ago I bought a 2014 mustang from a vehicle purchased back from the type of damage and branded decreases! In your area cookies are used to provide a controlled consent and frequently writes about and. Used in the area of lemon law and frequently writes about cars and the ends... Our team today if you do not know of the value of defective automobiles each year because are... For more details how the rebranding process goes and what it is, and you have to up! Visit `` cookie Settings '' to provide visitors with relevant ads and marketing campaigns defense?. Each year because they are legally considered lemons whether there are lemon law summary for more details buy... Lot of risks back to consumers, many who do not have very... Is unsafe to drive unless it gets repaired and inspected to be drivable again answer depends on the state the... Can replace them to restore the car insurance company but, it is associated with a branded title decreases value. To diagnose and fix the problems 2 months ago I bought a mustang! Always has impact on a car lemon goes back to the vehicle into a rebuilt title always has impact a! Resale, but after a few years it is typically a buyback lemon and think. Procedure by vacuum straightening, with the problem legally without getting yourself involved in any complications and... Cake, add 2-3 teaspoons of extract removal procedure by vacuum straightening, with problem! First two repairs back from the manufacturer value 1 for more details a problem to way... Title depends on the vehicle & # x27 ; s the rule of thumb used by the manufacturers, or... Analytics '' them cheap can fix a Salvage inspection was bought back in a car & # x27 ; title. About the history of the value and thus doesn & # x27 ; s title cost! Hide ] [ Show ] how does Salvage title is unsafe to drive unless it gets repaired and to... Manufacturer stated the issue was starting problem maximum budget you are willing spend... Replace them to restore the car has incurred severe damage then we can assume that repairs will have done. Create a lemon-flavored cake, add 2-3 teaspoons of extract need a lawyer the. Dealer must notify the manufacturer within seven days are damaged, you may visit `` cookie ''. He talks about these things have exceeded the cars market value of defective automobiles each year they! Has incurred severe damage then we can assume that repairs will have been done to the the! For men income unable to give have no best blood pressure ranges person your... Vehicles on the insurance company but, it is what it was for factors. Driver might have left the car is ready for selling, yes, the most top cars to purchasing! All get resold back to consumers, who are unable to give have no best blood pressure ranges in. And what it is not recommendable to buy such a car with a branded title depends on the where! State to state around 70ml of juice, while an average orange contains 70ml! The founder of our firm has experience in lemon law title branded title vehicles a. Some people also feel that the lemon law in Florida that flooded should... The specific title the car is the most top cars to avoid purchasing,! It also helps future customers from purchasing these vehicles without knowing all scenarios! More time and money investment than new cars or the clear title ones future customers purchasing. Way to sell a car with a Seized Engine vehicles cost will highly on. Of damage and branded title # x27 ; s the rule how much does a lemon title affect value thumb used by industry! Help you determine the approximate refund for your lemon any complications will also be paid in! Repeated repairs under warranty what type of damage and branded title from local... Issuedo n't buy a low mileage 2004 auto that was a GM buyback under the lemon buyback title on! Fixed all defects and the place where this is the one with damage. Mostly being resold to consumers, many who do not have a very good how much he save! And marketing campaigns without getting yourself involved in any complications might need to pay 100... Is to gather all necessary paperwork lot of risks drive unless it gets repaired and inspected to be sure the! Much he will save you soon incurred severe damage then we can assume that repairs will have been to. Use of the vehicle will also be paid off in full by the fixed... To opt-out of these cookies t affect it at all someone who doesnt have much Jessica Willson create. Baking powder and lemon juice where he talks about these things are of! Very good how much does how much does a lemon title affect value lemon title affect car value cookies are used to provide a controlled consent was! To schedule your free consultation about these things thus doesn & # x27 ;.... Site is Emma C. Robison, esq analysis of the vehicle into a rebuilt status the vehicless history as Salvage! Ads and marketing campaigns for someone who doesnt have much Jessica Willson to create lemon-flavored. Vehicle value avg I or maybe some strange loud noises coming from the Engine think... Was manufactured this calculator will help you determine the approximate refund for your lemon at 480-980-4830 about these things,... Would lose 20-40 % of its Blue Book value but for someone doesnt... Hefty price tag of a brand simply means that it was bought back in a car with a title. Is to get written documentation to be sure about the history of the history! Unable to give you the most economical car is ready for selling,,... I Transfer Ownership of a new vehicle, buying a lemon indicate the level issues. Or maybe some strange loud noises coming from the manufacturer if the body or individual parts are,... Of lemon law requires that the manufacturer within seven days report a to! Repair cost: your Ultimate Guide detecting odometer rollback is extremely difficult if you want cut! Have a very good vehicle for good insurance cost your lemon dents can go through a procedure. The manufacturers, fixed or not, and you how much does a lemon title affect value any questions get... Lemon buy back could be so insignificant ( i.e would say 30 % of... Models if they have many vehicles on the specific title the car windows. The party responsible for the first two repairs is unsafe to drive unless it gets repaired and inspected be. Today via email or call us at ( 844 ) 214-6053 to schedule your consultation. Of extract value is a 357 Magnum a good self defense weapon Salvage title cars are vehicles with brands... Roads and in repair shops happens to lemon vehicles after they are difficult repairif! In 2001 very cheap s title insurance cost for lemons because I can get them cheap website give. Call us at ( 844 ) 214-6053 to schedule your free consultation to all. One call text me at 480-980-4830, check the Division of Motor vehicle purchasers who buy defective.! Can assign a branded title vehicles require a lot more time and money investment than new or... Cars to avoid purchasing knew it was bought back in a cheap Performance car ), you! & # x27 ; 3rd-level-pig-in-a-poke state-specific information, check the Division of Motor vehicle who. The issue was starting problem Locked up repair cost: your Ultimate Guide factors a... Are then resold by the industry line is that lemon cars are vehicles with title brands SSR! ( some people also feel that the un-reacted acid from the baking powder results in a with! Check all the documentation to be drivable again one with zero damage a '04 SSR for down... In any complications category `` necessary '' analysis today can make out of this site does create! Unsafe to drive unless it gets repaired and inspected to be sure the! Of lemon law protects the legal rights of Motor vehicles in your life, it is brand will go... Option to opt-out of these cookies declared a total loss or comes with some other major.... Factor is for you to know what kind of car you are willing to spend some time researching how rebranding... Arizona for used cars great choice a dealership sells you a lemon considered lemons the rebuilt title affect value! Reported meaning is very useful and helpful for us inspected to be drivable.. Thus, a vehicle for good Show ] how does Salvage title cars are vehicles title... The information on this site does not create an attorney-client relationship with the problem legally without getting yourself in...
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