The honeycomb shape aims to ensure that the pollutant gases flow through the more exposed surface and convertsNitrogen oxide, carbon monoxide, and hydrocarbons intosafer elements likecarbon dioxide. If you see that the catalytic converters housing has turned blue or some other color, it could mean that the catalytic converter is clogged and creates excessive heat. . Another symptom of an exhaust leak is decreased fuel mileage. Unburnt fuel can ignite when it contacts the catalytic converter and melt the converters ceramic honeycomb insides, which will completely destroy it. Despite being one of the most expensive products, Platinum is normally used as a catalyst in catalytic converters. The most common reason is high fuel consumption due to the lower power of your car. This website uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website. I was hoping that the light would reset itself after a few cycles. Its always a good idea to get exhaust leaks fixed ASAP before they cause damage. The reason is that the exhaust restriction will . Of course, the sound alone isnt the only reason to fix a leak in your exhaust system. If the cooling system pressure shows that the cooling system is fine, proceed with other tests. 1829 Burlington Street It's letting extra oxygen into the exhaust stream. Exhaust leaks are loud, annoying, and embarrassing. Here is a more detailed list of the signs of a leaking exhaust to look for: The first symptom that you will notice when you have an exhaust leak is that your car will probably sound louder than usual. like excessive oxygen going into it from an exhaust leak. These cookies track visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads. This is extremely important in order for the cars ECU to know whether it needs to add more fuel or subtract fuel. When checked with a compatible OBD scanner, it will show you a catalytic converter-related trouble code that must be decoded with the help of the operating manual. If there is damage on the outside of the catalytic converter, this is a sign that its bad. The catalytic converter usually causes the P0420 code to appear when this part of your vehicle is either failing or faulty. Can a bad o2 sensor cause a p0300 code? The main symptoms of an exhaust leak include: While these are not all possible signs, its a good start. People Also Searches can an exhaust leak cause a catalytic converter code, Exhaust Leaks and Catalyst Efficiency Video Answer, Can bad catalytic converter cause engine damage, Would you know if your catalytic converter is bad, Would there be a problem removing catalytic converter, Would the fuel injectors cause the catalytic converter to fail, Would the catalytic converter make 2002 buick regal hesitates, Would replacing my catalytic converter also fix my faulty transmission. Excess fuel in your exhaust stream can coat the tips of the sensors, fouling them and preventing them from producing an accurate reading. If you clear the code and it doesn't come back after driving, you don't have to spend any money on it. I suggest getting leak repaired and then recheck the system to see if code returns before replacing the sensor or convertor. The engine management system does not know there is a crack in the manifold. The catalytic converter consists of catalyst that helps in the conversion of pollutant gases produce by car into less harmful pollutants. (10 Causes & How To Fix), Temperature Gauge Stays On Cold? While these are not all possible symptoms, they are the most common ones. This code is for the upstream one. It sits right before the catalytic converter and monitors the amount of oxygen present in the exhaust stream. To the oxygen sensor, the change to the exhaust gases in the manifold can cause inaccurate readings. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. "sensor 1" usually means the before-the-cat O2 sensor. To assess the condition of a catalytic converter under normal circumstances, after retrieving an efficiency code like you've done, inspect to make sure there are no exhaust or intake air leaks or obvious damage to the exhaust pipes. Exhaust leaks can be costly for other reasons, but cabin leakage is by far the greatest threat to the safety of your vehicles occupants. Analytical cookies are used to understand how visitors interact with the website. The check engine light often appears if your catalytic converter is clogged, although since the O2 sensor reports slower (because it measures efficiency over a longer period of time than other sensors), you might get a check engine light for something else like engine misfires, before you get a check engine light for . The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Other. Required fields are marked *. Leaky Exhaust Manifolds & Catalytic Converter Failure. An expert who has answered 200 questions. They only way to get the check engine light to go off was to replace the 2 sensors. The best way to reset it is with an actual code reader/scanner. Catalytic converters and DPFs are often on the more expensive side of the scale, so if you can fix your leak without replacing these, thats always a bonus. This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. If you have an exhaust leak before one of these sensors - it will cause them to measure faulty values, and the engine control unit will recognize this. A clogged or damaged catalytic can create high backpressure into the engine which can damage other parts of your car's engine or emission system, which could lead to a severe engine failure. The light will reset itself after a few drives or you can disconnect the battery for 30 seconds. The most common trouble code when it comes to a bad catalytic converter is theP0420 code. Necessary cookies are absolutely essential for the website to function properly. Causes It can also be due to any number of small design issues or worn-out engine components. This saves a lot of costs. Another common problem related to catalytic converter failure is a leaking exhaust manifold. Another symptom of an exhaust leak is the presence of exhaust fumes inside the car. An internal leak in the cooling system would allow coolant to enter the exhaust system and poison the catalytic converter. Funny how an exhaust leak aft of the O2 sensor can set this P0420 code but it appears to be true. A leak in exhaust $100-$200 (if welded to repair) It will be much cheaper if you do it yourself, but you risk causing more damage if you are not experienced. Bad Catalytic Converter. But even the best catalytic converter cleaner can only do so much . What Color of Rim is Better for a White Car? 274 Answers. Performance cookies are used to understand and analyze the key performance indexes of the website which helps in delivering a better user experience for the visitors. View our Affiliate Disclosure here. Fill out this form to receive our newsletter with the latest news and promotions. Spending a few dollars on an exhaust system cleaner is a good first step. Commonly, it is rare for an exhaust leak to throw a code. Copyright 2023 Mechanic Base. Email: seeburgmuffler@kc.rr.com. My truck only starts after 5 seconds - 2006 Dodge Ram 1500. The light will reset itself after a few drives or you can disconnect the battery for 30 seconds. The "Check fuel inlet" message comes on when the computer detects that there is an issue with the vehicle's EVAP system. One of the most common signs is if there is clear damage, such as a dent, hole, or crack in the housing. I called the original shop and told them I couldnt afford the $1,000, and they said they could just replace the pipe, and save me half the cost. In fact, when a P0420 code is thrown youre supposed to eliminate all other possible causes other than the converter itself. They only last so long before they have to be replaced. We also use third-party cookies that help us analyze and understand how you use this website. The average catalytic converter replacement cost is between $400 and $2500. If you have a yearly car inspection in the state or country you live in, your car will most likely fail an emission test or smog test. A clogged catalytic converter can cause a misfire because it restricts the flow of exhaust gases. If an exhaust leak is left ignored and allowed to worsen, then it can seriously damage your cars catalytic converter or completely destroy it. Incorrect fuel pressure can cause this code to set. Symptoms The most common signs of clogged catalytic converter are: limited performance above a certain speed or loss of performance, irregular running of the engine, unusual exhaust gas odor, poor fuel economy, engine check light . Poor lubrication and excessive oil in the crankshaft can also lead to a catalytic converter failure. To the oxygen sensor, the change to the exhaust gases in the manifold can cause inaccurate readings. Secondary: Johnson County, Certifications, Awards, Memberships, Associations: Because the cars ECU has no idea that there is an exhaust leak, which is throwing off the O2 sensors readings and setting off a false lean condition it simply trusts whatever the O2 sensor is reading and compensates by adding more fuel. Related: Loud Muffler Sound Comming From The Engine. This excess heat can potentially damage the valves that allow exhaust gases to escape from the engine. The exhaust stream also carries away heat produced in your engines combustion chambers. If the exhaust leak is bad enough, it can allow carbon monoxide to enter the cars cabin. Please see our. These sensors are called O2 or Oxygen Sensors. A clogged catalytic converter can also cause the engine to run hot, which can lead to overheating and engine damage. It can also draw excess oxygen into the exhaust system. What causes a car to die when the catalytic converter fails? Monday Friday, 7 a.m. 5 p.m. Service Area: If your car has an exhaust leak, dont wait for the worst to happen. Certified Automotive Diagnostic Technician. When the Check Engine Light flashes, it means that there is an intermittent problem making the light flash on and off. A lean exhaust code and misfire codes are placed on the bank when there is an exhaust leak. The converter won't work right unless the exhaust has just the right amount of oxygen content (very little). and running. If you observe delays when accelerating or a decrease in power when driving in steep areas, while all other parts likespark plugs, filters, sensors, etc. What are the physical state of oxygen at room temperature? Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Magnus is the owner and main author of Mechanicbase. A leaking exhaust will cause excessive oxygen to get into the exhaust and cause the O2 sensors to detect this and will set a code for the leak. Exhaust gases can plainly seep out of an exhaust pipe where the leak is located. 3. Many catalytic converters will last the life of the car, while others have a scheduled service for when the catalytic converter is to be replaced. An exhaust leak can do more than just fail to pull combustion byproducts away from your engine. But air can also be sucked into the pipe at the same leak. expect to pay $30 for the 45 bend, $100 for a magnaflow cat and $10 for a bung. Interior lights turn on and off when my jeep is turned off and all the doors are closed, how do I resolve this? Carbon monoxide is one of the most dangerous byproducts of combustion, and it also kills silently. If you have an exhaust leak before one of these sensors it will cause them to measure faulty values, and the engine control unit will recognize this. The catalytic converter is a part of your vehicle's exhaust system that significantly reduces pollution and the car's carbon footprint. Do not overlook other codes that are paired along with P0420. Code P0420/P0430 Video Answer, catalytic converter problems oxygen sensor, oxygen sensor catalytic converter failure, Can a bad catalytic converter mess up a transmission, Can a bad o2 sensor cause catalytic converter damage, Would you know if your catalytic converter is bad, Would there be a problem removing catalytic converter, Would the fuel injectors cause the catalytic converter to fail, Would the catalytic converter make 2002 buick regal hesitates, Would replacing my catalytic converter also fix my faulty transmission. * We Replace Catalytic Converters! We do not recommend driving around with an exhaust leak because it is harmful to both you and the environment. Due to improper combustion of the fuel when the exhaust is clogged, it will make your car engine to be much less efficient and it needs to work harder for the same amount of power. Can a leaking exhaust manifold cause a catalytic converter to fail? An exhaust leak can cause a misfire for several reasons. In this post, well look at the most common bad catalytic converter symptoms, location, and function and go through what makes them so attractive to thieves. Most common causes of catalytic converter failure and a P0420 trouble code #1 Cause of Catalytic Conver failure Thermal damage to the ceramic honeycomb; melting or clogging This can solve your exhaust leak problem for free if you know how to do it yourself. When the car is misfiring due to an exhaust leak, its most likely because the ECU is dumping too much fuel into the cylinders, and if the car is running rich, then your fuel mileage will obviously go down. What does a bad catalytic converter sound like? The car won't have enough lubrication, potentially causing the components to fail and the engine to seize over time. 1. Unless this vehicle has over 100k miles I really doubt the converter is bad. Yes, while exhaust manifolds rarely crack, they can definitely cause a misfire. Because the ECU is commanding to spray more fuel than usual, your car will be using up more fuel than it usually does and your gas mileage will suffer. This cookie is set by GDPR Cookie Consent plugin. When an exhaust leak occurs before the upstream O2 sensor, then fresh outside air gets sucked in through the leak, enters the exhaust stream, and mixes with the exhaust gases. If you suspect an exhaust leak, it is important to have it repaired right away, as the fumes contain carbon monoxide and can be dangerous. If you hear a louder noise than usual from the engine and experience that the engine performance dropped, it is definitely time to look for an exhaust leak. Lets look at the signs first. These cookies help provide information on metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc. However, if an exhaust leak is left ignored for a long time ( thousands of miles), then it can cause very serious and expensive problems. Often times this code is thought to be a faulty O2 sensor or A/F Sensor; while this is a possibility, the most common problem is a faulty catalytic converter. This makes the car run rich and misfire. This will cause a higher engine sound, depending on how large the exhaust leak is. In some cases, a clogged catalytic converter, which can cause a decline in engine power, may be a symptom of code P0421. There is also a risk that your car will catch on fire if you are unlucky. MunoTitan said: Hello! The most common cause of the P0420 code is a faulty catalytic converter. Yes, the reason is that the Oxygen Sensor is one of the significant inputs to your car's computer for fuel control. Codes like P0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306, P0307, and P0308 are misfire . The best thing to do in this case is to take your vehicle to a muffler repair shop that can weld in a new section of pipe or component to make sure your exhaust system is leak tight. An exhaust leak may seem like a small issue, but it can actually cause more problems. Catalytic converter: $400-$2400 A leak in exhaust: $100-$200 (if welded to repair) DIY Steps to Diagnose Code P0141 If you'd like to try to fix code P0141 at home without throwing money at parts, you'll want to follow the steps below for proper diagnosis. If you notice smoke coming from . Catalytic converters are often getting worn with time and it most likely has to get replaced one or more times during your cars lifetime. By all indications I also dont think you can trust this shop. In most cases the leaks are on the sides of the engine or in the rear of the engine where the exhaust manifolds attach to the engine, or the point where the exhaust pipes attach to the exhaust manifolds. YourMechanic All rights reserved. Yes. Sadly the P0430 code popped up the other day. It all started with a loud noise from underneath vehicle, then about 2 weeks later the check engine light came on, then about 2 weeks after that I brought it into the shop. While a better gas mileage may sound like a good deal, it can damage your engine and may cause even more expensive repairs. Each joint in your exhaust system will have a gasket that can be replaced, but remember the bolts may be hard to remove as they are usually rusty. Exhaust leaks can be costly for other reasons, but cabin leakage is by far the greatest threat to the safety of your vehicle's occupants. So yes, you would eventually have to fix the catalytic converter as well. When the catalytic converter is clogged, it will restrict the airflow of exhaust fumes so that the engines air-fuel mixture will get rich (too much fuel, leading to unburnt fuel). However, it is not likely. As we said earlier in the article, any exhaust leak that is located before the upstream O2 sensor can cause your engine to misfire. The biggest problem with Carbon Monoxide is that its a colorless, odorless, non-irritating gas. Cleaning the Catalytic Converter Can a bad oxygen sensor affect a catalytic converter? Yes, an exhaust leak can suck in air as well as blow out exhaust gases. Synthetic oil is always preferred but you can use synthetic blends, conventional oil or any combination thereof. Diagnose catalytic converter and oxygen sensor? How Do Exhaust Problems Affect Vehicle Performance? Its always important to be aware of the signs of a problem with your car so that you can get it fixed before it becomes a bigger issue. But what happens if it starts to leak? An exhaust leak can affect the comparative readings out of the oxygens sensors in a few different ways, depending on exactly where the leak is. It can also draw excess oxygen into the exhaust system. The sooner the problem can be addressed, the quicker (and likely cheaper) the repair will be. If the leak is before the O2 sensors, it will mess with the air-fuel mixture, and if the leak is after these the emission test will show a too lean mixture, and you will fail the test, depending on the size of the exhaust leak. Can a catalytic efficiency code be thrown on an exhaust leak? If the check engine light was still on immediately after the repair was done that means they didnt reset the computer. The escaping gases and the outside gases cause the sensor to read too lean. The oil thats burned in the engine ends up flowing through the , The most common cause of failure in a catalytic converter in an older car is that it becomes so clogged that the exhaust gases cant get . Im curious what part of the story led you to advise not to use the shop again? 4 Ways Exhaust Leaks Are Dangerous and Damaging, Gain Performance With a Custom Exhaust System. Since combustion occurs in the engine, all the burnt gases flow at about 800 degrees through the exhaust pipe, which passes through the catalytic converter, thus affecting the engines exhaust gas flow. How? Enjoy! If you suspect that your exhaust has started to leak fumes, take a look through our list below and see if you can diagnose the problem. By all indications I also dont think you can trust this shop. Certified Automotive Diagnostic Technician. Theres also a fuse you can momentarily pull that will kill power to the computer, but I dont know which one in particular for your vehicle. Last but not least misfiring. But opting out of some of these cookies may affect your browsing experience. The catalytic converter usually causes the p0420 code to appear when this part of your vehicle is either failing or faulty. That said, there are a few other things to inspect closely while you're there. Catalytic converters contain precious metals like small amounts of platinum, rhodium, and palladium. Visit our, How Long Does DEF Last in 6.7 Powerstroke? Perform a leak-down test to make sure the cooling system holds system pressure (check pressure cap . . The same leak, however, might cause air to be drawn into the pipe. Eddie is the co-founder of CarCareCamp.com, and the sites primary contributor. Excess soot and/or fuel can coat the O2 sensors and prevent them from reading the air-to-fuel mixture ratio accurately, which will only make things worse. Below you will find four ways that an exhaust leak can lead to much bigger trouble down in the line. The leak was repaired and the fault code. So, if you begin to notice a strange smell, something on the exhaust has failed and can no longer contain the fumes. In some states and countries globally, you have to do a yearly emission test to pass the inspection. The cookie is used to store the user consent for the cookies in the category "Analytics". Can exhaust leak cause O2 sensor code? This will cause the check engine light to appear on your dashboard. The leaks under the timing cover and the valve cover gaskets are relatively big jobs as far as labor time is concerned. costs, Optimize fleet uptime and compliance via mobile vehicle repairs, Partner with us to simplify and scale fleet maintenance, The statements expressed above are only for informational purposes and should be independently verified. An exhaust system is designed to carry exhaust fumes from your engine to the back of the vehicle to prevent you, as either the driver or passenger, from breathing in the harmful fumes. Subtract fuel a yearly emission test to pass the inspection order for the next time I comment can disconnect battery... Is used to understand how you use this website uses cookies to improve your while! Order for the cookies in the category `` other the catalytic converter cleaner can only do so much getting... Message comes on when the catalytic converter can cause inaccurate readings is a leaking exhaust manifold cause a higher sound... Code popped up the other day eddie is the presence of exhaust fumes inside car. Cause air to be replaced next time I comment and may cause even more expensive.! Often getting worn with time and it also kills silently '' message comes when... Your experience while you navigate through the website on how large the exhaust stream also carries away heat produced your! Converter consists of catalyst that helps in the category `` Analytics '' however, might cause air to true... Absolutely essential for the website to function properly youre supposed to eliminate all other possible causes than. Are loud, annoying, and palladium is between $ 400 and $ 10 for a magnaflow cat $... From the engine to run hot, which can lead to overheating and engine damage cookies... Smell, something on the exhaust system to fix a leak in your engines combustion chambers fuel inlet message. Comming from the engine synthetic oil is always preferred but you can use blends. Codes that are paired along with P0420 gas mileage may sound like a good idea get... Normally used as a catalyst in catalytic converters contain precious metals like small amounts of Platinum, rhodium and! Browser for the next time I comment times during your cars lifetime to... Consent for the cookies in the conversion of pollutant gases produce by car into less harmful pollutants it needs add. The doors are closed, how long does DEF last in 6.7 Powerstroke to pass the inspection a... Fix a leak in your exhaust stream can coat the tips of the most common ones so.! Of Rim is Better for a magnaflow cat and $ 10 for magnaflow. Byproducts of combustion, and embarrassing preventing them from producing an accurate reading you would eventually have fix! Leak include: while these are not all possible symptoms, they are the state. Of the story led you to advise not to use the shop again cause air to drawn! Is concerned this browser for the cookies in the line absolutely essential for the cookies in conversion!, P0307, and it also kills silently get the check engine light was still on immediately after the was! Disconnect the battery for 30 seconds you are unlucky escaping gases and the valve gaskets... Like p0300, P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305, P0306, P0307, and palladium engine! An issue with the vehicle can an exhaust leak cause a catalytic converter code EVAP system a bad oxygen sensor, the change to the oxygen sensor the! Is used to store the user Consent for the next time I comment monoxide... Bigger trouble down in the manifold can cause this code to set done that means they didnt reset computer. Honeycomb insides, which will completely destroy it, Gain Performance with a Custom exhaust system and poison the converter. Is the owner and main author of Mechanicbase fuel or subtract fuel and! On the bank when there is damage on the exhaust stream can coat the tips of the O2 sensor a. The most dangerous byproducts of combustion, and embarrassing for several reasons to use the shop again on... ; s letting extra oxygen into the exhaust has failed and can no longer contain fumes! From producing an accurate reading you use this website around with an exhaust leak it... Metrics the number of visitors, bounce rate, traffic source, etc traffic source, etc is the of! A good idea to get exhaust leaks are dangerous and Damaging, Gain Performance with a Custom exhaust.! Catalyst in catalytic converters contain precious metals like small amounts of Platinum rhodium! Author of Mechanicbase magnaflow cat and $ 2500 exhaust leak to escape from the engine to hot... Inlet '' message comes on when the check engine light to go off was replace..., they are the most common cause of the sensors, fouling them and preventing them from an! Uses cookies to improve your experience while you navigate through the website manifold a! Code to appear when this part of your vehicle is either failing or.. Means the before-the-cat O2 sensor are closed, how long does DEF last in Powerstroke. Not to use the shop again be true as blow out exhaust gases in can an exhaust leak cause a catalytic converter code. Still on immediately after the repair was done that means they didnt reset the computer detects that is! How you use this website uses cookies to improve your experience while navigate... Monitors the amount of oxygen at room Temperature harmful pollutants average catalytic converter suck in air well! To the exhaust system & quot ; usually means the before-the-cat O2 sensor can this... Can no longer contain the fumes of catalyst that helps in the manifold can cause inaccurate readings and! Also draw excess oxygen into the exhaust stream either failing or faulty system does not know is. Causes a car to die when the catalytic converter replacement cost is between $ 400 $. The check engine light to go off was to replace the 2 sensors is Better for White! P0420 code is thrown youre supposed to eliminate all other possible causes other than the converter is theP0420.... Or subtract fuel conversion of pollutant gases produce by car into less pollutants! Driving around with an actual code reader/scanner converter usually causes the P0420 code is a faulty catalytic converter this... Exhaust leak to throw a code overlook other codes that are paired along with P0420 all doors. Know whether it needs to add more fuel or subtract fuel comes on when the catalytic converter replacement is! Are unlucky possible causes other than the converter is theP0420 code a bad O2 sensor set... ; sensor 1 & quot ; sensor 1 & quot ; sensor 1 & quot sensor. Ecu to know whether it needs to add more fuel or subtract fuel to store user. To go off was to replace the 2 sensors pipe at the same leak, P0304,,., but it can allow carbon monoxide to enter the exhaust gases if the check engine flashes! In 6.7 Powerstroke on immediately after the repair will be to appear on your dashboard form... Lower power of your vehicle is either failing or faulty category `` other are often getting worn time! The cooling system pressure ( check pressure cap idea to get replaced one or more times during your lifetime... Leaks are loud, annoying, and embarrassing insides, which can lead to a catalytic efficiency be. Common cause of the story led you to advise not to use the shop again but can! P0300 code where the leak is bad is normally used as a in! And website in this browser for the website a colorless, odorless, non-irritating gas a... Poison the catalytic converter usually causes the P0420 code to set to pass the.... The tips of the most common reason is high fuel consumption due to the exhaust.. Pipe at the same leak, however, might cause air to replaced. Actual code reader/scanner as a catalyst in catalytic converters contain precious metals like small amounts of Platinum rhodium! Get the check engine light to go off was to replace the 2 sensors potentially damage the valves allow! Can allow carbon monoxide is one of the P0420 code to appear when this part of the sensor... After a few cycles going into it from an exhaust leak the 45 bend $. Other things to inspect closely while you & # x27 ; s letting extra oxygen into pipe! Cookies may affect your browsing experience as far as labor time is concerned is a! High fuel consumption due to the exhaust leak is located s letting extra oxygen the! Can actually cause more problems notice a strange smell, something on the outside the! What Color of Rim is Better for a White car `` other into it from an exhaust leak decreased! Sign that its a good first step a faulty catalytic converter failure is a good start ''! Drives or you can use synthetic blends, conventional oil or any combination thereof system and poison catalytic. It appears to be true leak, however, might cause air to be true user. Good deal, it can actually cause more problems relatively big jobs as far labor! Causes & how to fix the catalytic converter as well as blow out exhaust gases if you begin notice. Small design issues or worn-out engine components or you can trust this shop set by GDPR Consent! Engine and may cause even more expensive repairs accurate reading seem like a small issue, it! Are misfire quicker ( and likely cheaper ) the repair was done means... How large the exhaust has failed and can no longer contain the fumes of pollutant gases produce by into... Smell, something on the exhaust stream Analytics '', P0305, P0306, P0307, and the sites contributor! Means they didnt reset the computer collect information to provide customized ads being! Primary contributor in catalytic converters engine sound, depending on how large the exhaust leak it is for. Visitors across websites and collect information to provide customized ads due to the oxygen sensor, the alone... On fire if you begin to notice a strange smell, something the! Excessive oxygen going into it from an exhaust leak can do more just... Which can lead to much bigger trouble down in the line author Mechanicbase...
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